تبادلۂ خیال ویکیپیڈیا:دیوان عام/وثائق/وثائق اول/پنجم

یہ صفحہ وکیپیڈیا کی تاریخ کا حصہ ہے۔ براہ مہربانی اس صفحہ میں ترمیم نہ کیجیۓ؛ موجود صفحہ براۓ تبادلۂ خیال پر رجوع کیجیۓ۔

• یہ افراز صاحب کی تحریر ہے، اور وثق پنجم میں علمی اصطلاحات پر بحث کا حصہ سمجھا جانا چاہیے۔

This message is for all the Urdu Wikipedians and specially for Mr Haider sahib

I was blamed for the violation of wikipedia policy of No original research and the reason they give for this is that, I use difficult scientific terminology on the basis of the etymology of the words in Urdu language. It was said (or complain) to me that, I am creating the new words and this is against the Wikipedia No original research policy, but the situation is that I am not making any new words and can not compromise on the standard and quality of the information provided on the Wikipedia.

• You ask me to use easy and simple words instead of the correct terminology of science because you think that it is difficult for ordinary person to understand such a difficult language, but my question is that can we ignore the proper scientific terminology just because it is difficult? We can explain it in easy word, but we can not avoid the proper term, this is what I think is the logical way.

• I explain you a little about Urdu language. Urdu is a mixed language, in regards of its etymology of the words (Just like English borrows all the words of scientific terminology from Greek, Latin, Old French and German), Urdu borrows its words from Arabic, Persian, Turkish and some from Hindi,

• Most of the scientific words are not found in Urdu language and these words are used in Roman style Urdu of English word. In some old books of medicine and science there are scientific words of those days (may be 50 years ago or more), taken from Arabic and Persian.

• But during the last half century or more probably last century, as you know very well, the region of Urdu speaking people (I mean India, Pakistan and communities in neighboring countries) remain in a troubled and anarchy, during all this period intellectuals were unable (or made so) to make new scientific terminology and continue borrowing words from Arabic and Persian.

• No what I am doing is just to pick a word from the Arabic or Persian (if it is not available in Urdu) and use is at an alternative to the corresponding scientific term. So, is it the violation of the No original policy of Wikipedia?

Please think it as if you just use Heart muscle in an article and avoid the scientific term Myocardium for it, is it acceptable? Why? Just because heart muscle is easy? I think we can not do like this, we can write (for making it easy to understand to a layman) that myocardium is the medical term for heart muscle, but we can not hide or ignore the proper term of myocardium. We can write shortage of blood to make it easy to understand for a layman, but we can not hide or avoid the proper term of Anemia for this condition. We can say the brain membrane, but we can not hide or avoid the proper medical term, meninges! Can we?

• The same I do in my articles. I use a proper term (please note that the Urdu is borrowing its words from Arabic and Persian) of a scientific term and then I write its English equvlent in brackets. Such as if I have to use khuliya (Arabic word for cell), I always mention the English equalent of this in brackets as, khuliya (cell).

• Am I violating the No original research policy? how? Is it possible if some one say that Myocardium is difficult so you should use Heart muscle instead of myocardium!!? I think then the solution is to make a Simple Urdu wikipedia, as it is there in Simple English.

• Dear brother Haider, lets join with me and people like Urdutext sahib
• I think you may fear or worry as if we are making it difficult for an authority of Urdu by government or we may influence their work, I am happy that we have people like you who can think so far, but my brother this is not possible. We are just making a way to think other people that this is not impossible (as they think) to use local languages for the study of science.
• We will change any of our term soon after it arise from any Urdu authority (if it is different from our term). As you change Khud-harkiya by Khud-harkat, and accept that because you said it is from another site (in fact I don’t think khud-harkat is a proper term for automobile but I accept it according to your explanation)

• Another term was Train, I translated it as Qatariya, and Khawar sahib said that it is better to use rail-gaRi, but as you know Rail and Train are two different things so how can we use the term rail-gaRi, we can explain at the start of the article text that Train is normally called train or rail-gaRi, but we can not mix the terms of Train and Rail.

1. Like English borrow its terminology from Latin or Greek, Urdu borrows from Arabic and Persian.
2. I want to give a term with its proper form in Urdu and if the term is not found in Urdu then in Arabic or Persian, and I will also give the English equivalent of that perticular term in brackets, e.g:

• • Micro-tome; I will write like this --- نشتردقیق (Micro-tome) , please note that English equivalent is given just in FRONT of the term used! Urdu text read as, nashtar-daqeeq, nashtar is -tome of micortome and daqeeq is Micro of microtome.

1. Most of the portion of Urdu poetry is FULL of Arabic and Persian words, and they do not object? but they make objection when I use a word of Arabic in Science article, even though I give the English Alternate in front of the word.
2. I will just use the words and terms that are already present in Arabic, Urdu and English etc. NO Any new word I will creat.

• Dear Brother I write the guidelines as follows, and I invite everyone to let me know if there is any objectionable point in it
• GUIDELINES FOR SCIENCE ARTICLES
• No term on Urdu science articles is UNCHANGABLE! if a better term arise from any authority or from any intellectual and Urdu Wikipedians decided to change it with new one, it should be changed.
• This Wiki, WIKIPEDIA is an URDU version, is created for the articles in Urdu. WIKIPEDIA URDU should adhere to the following policy.
• Wikipedia Urdu is only for the articles in Urdu language.
• Wikipedia Urdu must have to provide an Urdu language equivalent for every English term of science.
• Wikipedia Urdu can use transliteration only if a name is a proper noun or a trademark or a patent.
• Wikipedia Urdu can borrow the words from Arabic and Persian, even if they are not common in Urdu, as is the case with Urdu poetry that borrows words of Arabic and Persian because Urdu is originated and always dependent on Arabic and Persian, and so does its literary work, no matter scientific or poetic.
• Wikipedia Urdu will not accept any title of any article in English alphabets even if it is an abbreviation! e.g: title about CIA should be سی آئی اے ، not CIA.
  • I THINK SUCH GIDELINES SHOULD ALSO BE MAKE FOR THE OTHER TYPES OF ARTICLES, SUCH AS RELIGION OR CULTURAL
  • I MAKE SURE TO EVERY ONE THAT FROM NOW ON I WILL NOT TRY TO CREATE ANY WORD, (AS I DID FOR TRAIN, QATARIYA FROM QATAR), AND I WILL ONLY USE THE WORDS ALREADY PRESENT IN THE DICTIONARIES
  • I ALSO PROMISS TO EVERYONE THAT I WILL DISCUSS WITH OPEN HEART AND MIND TO CHANGE ANY DISPUTED TERM, WITH THE SUGGESTED ONE
  • I AM ALSO AGREE IF THERE IS ANY DISPUTED TERM IN ANY OF THE PREVIOUS SCIENCE ARTICLE TO DISCUSS ABOUT IT AND CHANGE IT IF A BETTER TERM IS SUGGESTED.
  • LETS DO EVERY THING TOGATHER, PLEASE POINT OUT ON TALK PAGE IF THERE IS ANY (OR MANY) ARTICLES YOU THINK SHOULD BE CHANGED

AFRAZ